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Thread: Call forwarding from phone

  1. #1

    Default Call forwarding from phone

    Hi all

    I am sure this has been brought up before. I know I have mentioned at least once.

    Why can't we use forwarding on the handset? All handsets have call forwarding features, which are usually more obvious and intuitive to users. So much so that we get support calls from users who inadvertantly set up call forwarding on their handsets then get the dreaded "IP connection can not be established" message.

    Call forwarding is a standard part of the SIP RFC (302 moved temporarily) and I believe that by not honouring the feature in the phones, Quadro is not compliant to the RFC.

    It could be done in addition to the PBX based forwarding available now.

    Regards

    Mark Dutton
    Datamerge

  2. #2

    Default

    This really depends on the telephone and also how you deploy the forward feature on the phone.

    Forwarding works fine without a problem ... seeing as the Quadro needs to know the state of the phone rather than the phone delegating the state to the telephone system is the only way the telephone system works correctly...

    Take the following :

    You have a sip server like Asterisk.... you have a group assigned in the extensions.conf with several telephones within it...


    You have one of those extensions in the group deciding to forward his calls to voicemail... The no answer forward is set for 20 seconds.

    The group needs to ring the group as a transferred call for 40 seconds before the ivr message of your call is important to us please hold and we will answer you shortly.

    What happens to the next call to the group ....

    Well the Asterisk telephonme system will let the telephones ring for 20 seconds before the call is presented to the person that forwarded his call to the voicemail and the customer is directed to a personal voicemail....

    The Epygi, in this scenario due to owning the state of the forwards is able to allow you as a user to forward your calls to your voicemail and have personal / directed calls go to your voicemail as required with the calls to the group you are in following the group forwards and keeping the caller as a group call and waiting for the 40 seconds before it plays the ivr message.

    Does that help you with the reasoning behind the Epygi controlling the forward feature ?

    This is but one scenario and reason, there are many more....

    Regards

    Kev

  3. #3

    Default

    Interesting comment Kev

    However, other PABXs get around this fine. The call forwarding method of all good SIP handsts is the same. It replies with a "302 moved temporarily" SIP response. So let's assume this is the only method we will support. I personally haven't seen a SIP handset use any other method of diverting.

    Now to the group call scenario. As the PBX is initiating the call, it will know when to honour the diversion, or ignore it.

    I am not sure if Asterisk can do this as I have only ever used it with a front end like Trix box, etc. However, other commercial PBXs, like Zultys do this no problem. They forward personal calls as per the handset forwarding, but not if the phone is called as a group member.

    Zutlys, like Epygi has its own forwarding mechanism, but it still works with the handset forwarding and this is terrific as some customers want this.

    Regards


    Mark Dutton
    Datamerge

  4. #4

    Default

    The Epygi idea of keeping the operability within the PBX is solid, that way the caller experience can be controlled at the PBX level which is a must, it is the brains behind the routing of the call not the telephone...

    I think the differentiator that the Epygi offers in Call Management, attributes to part of the success of it around the world and possibly why you are here as well isnt it.


    Kev

  5. #5

    Default

    I think the Quadro is good, but all products can benefit from improvements. The whole idea of SIP is to create a consistent approach and I applaud Epygi and others who embrace the idea of standardisation.

    The simple issue though is that Epygi supports directly, Snom, Aastra, Polycom and other handsets which all have readily accessible forwarding functions through their menus, which are standard and I believe they should work. End users couldn't care less about design philosophy, etc. They see a feature on a phone and they expect it to work. The whole idea of how a SIP handset handles diversion IS by letting the PBX have full control. The handset does not do any actual diversion. It simply reports to the calling PBX that the user wishes to divert and the PBX decides how this should be done.

    With all due respect I have posted on this column to voice my opinion to Epygi about a feature that I am often asked for and I was not quite expecting to get such a negative reaction to the question from someone outside of Epygi.

    Perhaps I should pose this question directly to Epygi, although it is always good to have some robust debate on a subject

    Regards

    Mark Dutton
    Datamerge

  6. #6

    Default

    Mark, I think it may be your experience of how the forwarding feature works with other systems and having an expectation of it working the same on the Epygi. As I said before the Epygi has its differentiators and this is clearly one of them.

    Forwarding works as stated by Epygi, and it works very well.

    If you take the forwarding away from the Epygi unit and put it soley in the telephone, then you will lose a lot of functionality that makes the Epygi stand out.

    Here is one example:

    Controlling the forwarding of an extension from the Auto Attendant by calling in remotely, and on the fly altering the forwarding to another destination after authenticating yourself.

    If the forwarding feature is on the telephone you lose this function and many others alone.

    I like debates....

    Kev

  7. #7

    Default

    That's all fine Kev, but the forwarding in the telephone is ultimately controlled by Epygi and the *4 functionality does not have to be removed. Both can live in peace and harmony. It is simply a matter of what users want.

    The Zultys PBX we sell is an enterprise system with many more features than the Quadro. It has incredibly sophisticated call flow management and rules wizards through a CTI interface, but one can still divert their own personal calls from their handset if they so wish. This is not a sledge at Epygi. We like product and we sell it accordingly. I am just making a point about flexibility and options.

    Customers are asking me why they can't have it and I can't give them a good reason. It is also frustrating when customers call in for support because they inadvertently, or otherwise tried to forward calls on their handsets.

    Ultimately, 95% of the people use 5% of the features. They all just want to use a different 5%.

    I can see you don't value this feature, but I would like to raise it with Epygi anyway as there may be others who want it and it will make us happy if it is added

    Regards

    Mark Dutton

  8. #8

    Default

    Oh and one other thing. If you dial in and change your diverts, a valuable feature for some, phone diversion will not interfere as PBX diversion has priority, so this function will still work. Of course you can't undo the phone diversion via the AA, but you can't have everything.

    Mark

  9. #9
    Quadro Architect
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    Default

    Hello Mark and Kev

    you had a nice and interesting discussion

    Truly saying, Mark is not the first person to request the CF feature of the phone to work with Quadro. We get that request from time to time, consider it, but postpone it then..

    There are several reasons behind that. The main one is probably the fact that when we think about the possible usage of the feature, we see that it could produce much more burden and confusion, than useful effect. First of all this will let to easily misconfigure the PBX by not-too-experienced-integrators, which will surely use this feature instead of the one on the PBX. More experienced intergators, like you, also will have problems, because having two kinds of forwarding will definitely confiuse end users. One will disable the feature on the PBX, thinking that it is automatically disabled now on the phone, and vice versa.

    Surely we cannot substitute the PBX forwarding feature by the one on the phone, so we have to have those two kinds of forwarding at the same time. This is really confusing for the end user, IMHO.
    At the end, we can implement this feature, as of course, it could be useful for *some* installations. But taking into account all the possible side-effects and misuse of this feature, we will declare that as "strongly not recommended to use", and recommend the PBX-side CF instead.
    One could ask - what is the reason to implement the feature, which we don't recommend to use? I'll tell - good question . Thats exactly the point why we don't have this feature done yet...

    Best regards,
    David

    P.S. Mark, you are still welcome to request this feature from the tech support (or through other, more influental channels, if you have them ). Who knows, maybe it could raise an internal discussion, and someone could persuade me that it is better to implement this feature...?

  10. #10

    Default

    Hi David

    I see your point. It would be a no brainer if the call forwarding was able to be disabled in the handset. However, the feature sticks out and users either use it accidentally, or ask for it and this is when we get into trouble.

    I won't take it any further. Just a request, but I have more important things to worry about just now

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Regards

    Mark

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